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. Valve Vs Solid state Go back
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seremban74

Joined: Joined: 31 Aug 2006
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Post Post subject: Valve Vs Solid state
Hi,
anyone can tell me a 50W power rating is the same as a solid state 50W. People told me that valve is more powerful because of Class A operation but after reading some technical book. it is not really the case.
i know valve sounds better on vocal, much thick and warmer sound.

Is 30W enough to hanlde modern music.
i am looking for one unit which is make in China. until now, the music that i heard from the shop is more on unplugges type. sounds great but want to have more comments from you guys.

thanks.
Very Happy
Vic

Joined: Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Kuala Lumpur
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Cool You have to listen with the various 'modern music' to see if it
rock your boat! 'Modern music' like the group Blues with their
album "All Rise"? Definitely can't rock the listening room with your
30Watter, you got to have a least a subwoofer to go with the main
speakers! Even new age music or house music etc., will benefit from
more amplification power! Wink
sonyman

Joined: Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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Location: Kuala Lumpur , Malaysia
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btw, there are always arguments between valves and transistors, well are you choosing a amp for the first time and dont know what to choose.

it seems that you are concern about the power output, what kind of speaker u intende to blow with ur 30 watter ? hehe,

well it all depends, and dont look down on vavles cause a well made one can blow the heck out of you, of course the sound wise is definately not the same as transistors and vice versa.

but think of what u wanna listen to and what kind of sound u want to achieve and then go for it, if u still cant decide, there is always a choice of a hybrid, or better still , own urself a valve and also a transistor,

better challenges are using a vavle as a pre and transistor as a power. hehe, those are really something more to look at,
justcool

Joined: Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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sonyman wrote:
better challenges are using a vavle as a pre and transistor as a power. hehe, those are really something more to look at,


That's exactly why some manufacturers make hybrid amps but sadly there's not many to be sold here.
My ideal combination would be the best solid state source all the way to the pre-amp I can afford for minimal distortion, accuracy, detail, resolution hooked to a reasonably powerful tube amp to pump out all the grunt and warmth to matching speakers. The downside is that depending on what kind of SS pre-amp, the system can veer towards fairly more clinical, sterile and darker tone. Its always tricky and one can't have all of the cake to eat. Reading manufacturer specs won't expose the truth of the end result. For those already having a full solid state power amp have the option of choosing a reputable tube pre-amp to alter the sonic character to something different.

Personally I wouldn't agree to having some X brand tube pre (maybe unless its matched of the same brand suggested pre/power combination) matched to another X brand power amp. It can display too much warmth, over-tubey character due to excessive drive resulting in sloppy, sagging, unnatural bass and in reality more distortion at the end of the chain. Again, choice can be very tricky and establishing best component synergy match is not an easy thing to achieve unless maybe one has a fat bank account or access to loan demo sets to see what can satisfy. There will exist some compromise and its not a perfect world.

Anyway, getting back to the poster's question, Yes!..IMO, 30Watts of tube power is quite satisfactory to rock. (sorry Vic!. 30W can rock and have enough authority, unless the speakers are current hungry and just can't produce enough bass, warranting a subwoofer to satisfy). Again, component match and synergy is important here for desired end result.

I suggest you take your time and go listen to different power amps, taking note of room size, type of speakers used and types of music being demo'ed. Best to bring a cdr of a fair amout of your kind of music to test out the amplifiers.
saucywkc

Joined: Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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30w is overkill with horn loaded speakers.

Sit far away and turn up the knob!
Vic

Joined: Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Cool Good morning gentlemen,


Anyway, getting back to the poster's question, Yes!..IMO, 30Watts of tube power is quite satisfactory to rock. (sorry Vic!. 30W can rock and have enough authority, unless the speakers are current hungry and just can't produce enough bass, warranting a subwoofer to satisfy). Again, component match and synergy is important here for desired end result.


/Easy to find out......invite me over for a listen, and I'll bring
along some Cee Dees like


1.Orff's Carmina Burana
2.Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture
3.Offenbach's Opheus in Hades
3.Murgoursky's Night on the Bare Mountain
4.The group Blue's album: All Rise
5.Man At Work's Best of CD
6.Cassandra Wilson's Rendezous/Full Moon's daughter
7.Chicago's Best of album.
8.Fateh Ali Khan's CD
9.Piano Solo pieces(This is a slow killer)


Let the music tell the turth! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

No insults intended, just that I find alot of systems out there
can't play this list! We could have teh tarik to talk over the
results of the listen session.

Wink
justcool

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Vic wrote:
Cool /Easy to find out......invite me over for a listen, and I'll bring along some Cee Dees like
Let the music tell the turth! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I've already got a fair amount of music tracks i've played many times over to convince there's quite sufficient power to rock and make me want to dance. This doesn't neccessarily mean it'll perform the same in any given room size or with other brand gear.
saucywkc wrote:
30w is overkill with horn loaded speakers.
Sit far away and turn up the knob!

I'd stop short somewhere 20 feet, turn round and walk away very quickly. Laughing
skareb

Joined: Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 141
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Post Post subject: Re: Valve Vs Solid state
seremban74 wrote:
Hi,
anyone can tell me a 50W power rating is the same as a solid state 50W. People told me that valve is more powerful because of Class A operation but after reading some technical book. it is not really the case.
i know valve sounds better on vocal, much thick and warmer sound.

Is 30W enough to hanlde modern music.
i am looking for one unit which is make in China. until now, the music that i heard from the shop is more on unplugges type. sounds great but want to have more comments from you guys.

thanks.
Very Happy


Easiest way to solve your misery is, take your own CDs, the type of songs you intend to play and try it. You'll get your answer there and then. If still unsure than bring the whole work back home and try it in your listening place Very Happy
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saucywkc

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Hi there,

Let's get serious, if you like rock, I would urge u to stay away from tube first.

May I know your budget, if budget allows, try to get the Naim 5i integrated which would set you less than 5K. That amp is able to get you boogey for years to come. Simple and hassle free operation.

For tube, there's underlying maintenance that might frighten you along the way. And cheap one would also set you around 5K like Prima Luna using EL34 tubes.

Between the 2, it really depends on your musical taste. For rockers, there's just so natural to turn to Naim. EL34 is too sweet to rock you. Also, at this price point, tube vs ss sound difference is still very prominent.

The main difference is that unless you play at real hi-end stuff where the sound characteristic started to converge, you have to choose carefully as you'll start to change if you find valve not suitable. Or vice versa.

For rockers, you really need that transient response to get that drum works like real thing! Cheaper tube amps are not able to do that, even my entry level ARC is not fast enough! I know as I listen to Pink Floyd, Led Zep and Deep Purple stuff.

Naim, on the other hand, would have no sweat giving you that better transient. But also, cheaper ss have the tendency to treat all musical notes as transient. They sometimes can't sustain the note long enough to give you that bloom and warm character.

That is why many beginners find valve more musical due to its slowness and confused sound. And many find ss sterile and lifeless due to their inability to play pop CDs well.

Hope there's something for you to consider before parting your hard earned dough.


Regards,
KC
Vic

Joined: Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 235
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Cool Good morning gentlemen,


KC you have said it well. Yes it does depend on what we want to
hear! Have to take into considerations the variables such as
room size, and sitting position and the type of presentation we
want to live with!
seremban74

Joined: Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 8
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Hi all,

Thanks for the valuable comments. I typically like vocals and unplugged type of instrutments. That's the reason, with the budget of around 4-5K, i found tube amp sounds more sweet.
i will try the Naim, i always thought this unit is always more then 10K. i am having a marantz now and need a better one.
have listen to some china make units and with my budget it is value for money.

Any unit recomendations with my budget?
thanks. Laughing
eddylws

Joined: Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 73
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Post Post subject:
seremban74 wrote:
Hi all,

Thanks for the valuable comments. I typically like vocals and unplugged type of instrutments. That's the reason, with the budget of around 4-5K, i found tube amp sounds more sweet.
i will try the Naim, i always thought this unit is always more then 10K. i am having a marantz now and need a better one.
have listen to some china make units and with my budget it is value for money.

Any unit recomendations with my budget?
thanks. Laughing


Hi,

My friend just bought a DIY tube AMP, it cost him around RM4500 (include KT88 & 2x6922, 2x6SN7 tube), right now we are mid of soldring it should be finish by end of this month, wwe will post the out come once the tueb amp have fully run in.

If you are interested you can go this web page.
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_ella.htm


Eddy Lim
Vic

Joined: Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 235
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Cool Hi Just cool,


You wrote........................

I've already got a fair amount of music tracks i've played many times over to convince there's quite sufficient power to rock and make me want to dance. This doesn't neccessarily mean it'll perform the same in any given room size or with other brand gear.


/Maybe my idea of able to 'rock' is different from others.....hmmm...
I want to be able to hear & feel (if possible)the kick drums, the oomph factor should be just about have me perceive the drum set(s) as being with some authority and the electric bass guitar should sound close enough to a real thing with its fast phase and energy, not necessary to be life size.......I know, I know that will be
requiring a subwoofer! That doesn't mean I push the sub real loud,
just for the authority, control and adds to the presentation of the
soundscape! Wink

/Nonetheless, with the above done nicely, contrabasses would not
be a problem to handle, and vocals will have more body to it. BTW,
I'm running 3 subwoofers!!! I reckoned no amount of talking in a
forum could be any good enough at convincing others that a sub
or subs are necessary, unless one sits down in front of systems
with subs to listen to see if they will miss anything and if they still
insist they don't need the low hz contents then I'll be very happy for
them! Different ppl needed different dosage of 'fixes'...lor!


Wink
justcool

Joined: Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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I'm caught in between whether to drop jaw or vigorously scratch my head reading your pride and joy of utilizing 3 sub-woofers in your system. I view it as quite out of the ordinary and rather unusual.
skareb

Joined: Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 141
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justcool wrote:
I'm caught in between whether to drop jaw or vigorously scratch my head reading your pride and joy of utilizing 3 sub-woofers in your system. I view it as quite out of the ordinary and rather unusual.


well like they say "One mans meat might be another mans poison" Very Happy They're many types of ppl and even more type of taste...most important thing I feel is if the owner likes it than its settled.
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